Gap Theory

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Re: Gap Theory

Postby Montanabeliever » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:25 pm

Thanks a lot for the list of verses to memorize.  

Yes, I have been baptized.  In the Lighthouse Baptist Church here in Butte.  I got saved a couple of years ago, but I've never grown much due mostly to my lack of effort in seeking God's face I suspect.   But I think I know where to begin now, and I'm joyful about that.

Thanks all for the great advice.
Shawn Atchison

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.  Romans 10:9-10
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Re: Gap Theory

Postby Chette » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:01 am

Now back to the GAP.

I was waiting to see if anyone noticed

But did anyone notice that the "beginning" in Proverbs 8:21-24The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.   I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.   When there were no depths (heaven), I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.  And Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.  there is a Gap?

Proverbs 8 has the beginning before the earth was while Gen 1:1 has the beginning with the creation of the Heaven and the Earth.  So the beginning of his way, before his works of old, was way before (in comparison to our 24/7 TQ) the beginning of Genesis one with the creation of the heaven and earth.  May I remind you that the time from the beginning of Prov 8 and that of Gen 1:1 is as a watch in the night or yesterday that has past to the LORD.  but to us it may seem to be a long time as Peter tried to explain when he said a day is as if 1,000 years and a 1,000 years as a day to the Lord.

How long is this Gap according to our current 24/7 TQ?  No one knows, it took place in Eternity and has no bearing on our current situation so God has chosen not to reveal to much about it, except that he exalted Wisdom which is in my estimation God the Son from the very start.  We know that apart from him nothing was made. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.   The same was in the beginning with God.   All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.  Though God the Son, the Word was with God at the beginning of creation of Genesis 1:1, the "beginning" of John 1:1 is the one found in Proverbs 8.

Therefore supporting the Doctrine that God Created the heavens and the earth in wisdom  Psalm 136:5 To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy [endureth] for ever.   Proverbs 3:19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

And Wisdom can be found in him, and given to him who lacks it and asks.   Proverbs 4:5, 7 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget [it] not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.  Wisdom [is] the principal thing; [therefore] get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.    Proverbs 16:16  How much better [is it] to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver! and  James 1:5  If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Again we see what George has pointed out The Bible is written for today, for men not for information (though we may get that) or experience (and we may find that too) but for man to LIVE!  2Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness (the word of God as found in the KJB), through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:  as he also testifies  2Peter 1:19  We have also a more sure word of prophecy (The Holy Bible as found in the KJB); whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Last edited by Chette on Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Psalm 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding.

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Re: Gap Theory

Postby Chette » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:09 am

Shawn,

When I find I am tempted to sin (though smoking may not be listed as a sin per se, it is poor stewardship of money and body) when I am tempted I go and read my Bible.  Keep a pocket New testament with you and at those times when you want to smoke read the Word.  After your "Bible break" go back to what you were doing or working on.

It really works for me.

Remember it only takes five days to get over the physical addiction (habit) to cigarettes but it takes 30days to get over the mental habit.
Psalm 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding.

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Re: Gap Theory

Postby Chette » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:08 pm

Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Here are one of those things not mentioned in Scripture as to when this was prepared.  It was not prepared during the 6 day work of God found recorded in Genesis.  and for those who have Lucifer's fall some time during the six day work of God this is a quandary as to when this everlasting fire was prepared for the devil and his angles.  and seeing it is called everlasting fire it must have been created sometime from everlasting, or in the Eternal TQ not the 24/7.  so it is clear there is an error in the teaching of those who would put the creation of Lucifer and the other beings and their fall sometime during the six day work of God found in Genesis 1.

The only logical conclusion is that the fall of Lucifer and his getting his new title as the Devil and Satan, the old dragon had to take place sometime between Genesis 1:1 and 1:3 or at best between Prov 8:24 and Genesis 1:3.

If there is a Gap as we see between Proverbs 8:22 and Genesis 1:1.  There very well could be a gap of time between Gen 1:1 and 1:3 as men have supposed.  And the best place to put Lucifer's Fall is in Eternity not during our 24/7 TQ that started in Gen 1:3-5 on the First day but before Genesis 1:3 sometime between verses one and two because this is the works of old that wisdom was possessed, set up and brought forth before at the beginning of his way.  

Now, there were no days before this on this earth until God said it was the first day.  He did not say the first new day, the first day after Lucifer's fall, he said the evening and the morning which are divided by light and darkness were the first day.  the first 24 hour day starts in verses 1:3-5 at the six day work of God.  later this 24/7 TQ was continued by the Establishment of the Sun and Moon and will continue until Rev 21.  After that the Sun and the mood will not be for days, times and signs any longer they wont even exist to give light.

So we know that the Lake of fire is the place prepared for the devil and his angels, we know it was not created during the six day work of God found in Genesis 1, so our only conclusion is that it took place sometime after the Beginning of his way (Prov 8:22) more than likely after the creation of the Heaven and the Earth Gen 1:1 and before Darkness was found in the depths in Gen 1:2, which was created sometime after Prov 8:22 before Prov 8:25.  Remember Prov 8:25 is lined up with Genesis 1:9-14.

So again we see another gap one between Prov 8:24 and Proverbs 8:25 which does not include Genesis 1:1-8.  We can easily fit that one in after Prov 8:24 before verse 25.  What an amazing Bible we have and God has preserved for us the understanding that things are missing but only things that deal With Eternity.  all that we need to know for this 24/7 life can be found in the Bible.

As brother Charles said the Bible is full of Gaps.  They are not so much gaps in the 24/7 TQ but lack of information of what happened in Eternity Past Prior to God special work for six day during which he made man.  And I believe the Earth was made in Eternity past Gen1:1 but when it is found in Genesis 1:2 it had been corrupted by darkness and Covered in water for a reason.  and when we find God on the scene in Gen1:3 he is rectifying a situation that had hindered his original purpose,for the earth which always has been for a kingdom and a Throne for God the Son whom he possessed, set up, and brought forth from the beginning of his way.  The Earth is currently under a different time element but will return to its Eternal state when it is made anew in Rev 21:1.
Psalm 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding.

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More for your thinking

Postby Chette » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:38 am

Luke 16 tells us abut a place called torments (we know it as hell but not the lake of fire) and the opposite placed called Abraham's Bosom

Luke 16:22, 23 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;  23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

We are told this place was a temporary holding place for the dead until judgement day by many Scholars.  

But when was this place made?  

We know the location for Jesus himself descended into it.  It is located in the heart of the Earth.  One side is now empty because Christ led captivity captive.  and the other is still being filled.  it will be destroyed in Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. at or after the Great White Throne Judgement of the dead.

It must be physical for it is to be cast into the lake along with the bodies of deceased men who were resurrected and judged and cast into it.  It is a spiritual place for it holds the souls of men.

How about the PIT that the angel opens in Revelation  Rev 9:1 ¶ And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. and another in  Rev 20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

When was this pit made?

and of course 2Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;  Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day the white throne judgement or at their release in the Tribulation and then there casting into the lake of fire.  do you think this is the same hell the rich man found himself in?  Hell is know as the Pit.   Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.  also when Korah was judged by God the word says  Numbers 16:33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive[B] i[/B]nto the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.  Hell for men may or may not be the same place that the Angels were confined but the terms are used interchangeably in Scriptures.

You see there are a great number of Questions of things we don't really know about and God has chosen not to reveal any details about them.

My opinion on when these things were created may or may not be correct because the Bible gives no information on them.  But they are there.

I believe the PIT was created before Genesis 1:3 after Lucifer's Fall and the angels that rebelled.  some time after that the lake of fire was created but still before Genesis 1:3.  I believe that the holding place for the souls of men as found in Luke was created sometime after mans fall and before the first man died physically.  And When Jesus Went into hell all the souls of dead men and angels saw him and heard him.  But like the great gulf between torments and Abraham's bosom there is a gulf between the souls of men and the fallen angels who are in chains.

These places The Pit for fallen angels and Satan, and the two compartment of hell found in Luke are an undeclared creation meaning no specific time when they were made.  They exist because God made them and they are for a purpose and when their purpose is done, death, hell and the earth in which the Pit lay will be destroyed in and by fire.

Men can escape the curse of hell if he will but trust and believe fully on the finished work of Christ on the cross to get him to heaven and nothing else.
Psalm 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding.

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Re: Gap Theory

Postby Jennifer » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:29 am

Chette wrote:Hi everyone,

We were gone for a week for a Philippines Missionaries Fellowship in another part of the country, the Conference it was very refreshing.

Jennifer said, "However, I don't accept the idea that time itself is a part of the Genesis creation.  How can there be a "gap" if time did not exist before       Genesis 1:5?  Endless time existed before the Genesis creation account and will extend after Revelation 21.  The Father is called the Ancient of days.  This title that God applies to himself does not lead me to conclude that God is outside of time, but rather that he has always been present within time.  Is there any other definition of "day" in scripture than 24 hours (with a couple of exceptions)?  I'm not sure if you see the so-called "24/7 time continuum" applying to Heaven or not during this present age.   If not, please consider this verse: Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."

While the concept of time is not limited t the Genesis Chapter one.  when we read Eternity, or from Everlasting to everlasting it is definitely speaking about time elements.  What I am saying is our 24/7 Time Quantum (current time calculating system) is different that God's TQ which is Eternal.  From our 24/7 we form our mathematics and observable sciences, because distance is based on one point to another based on having light and darkness to contrast so that we can calculate correctly.  Light in its varying forms gives us all sorts of new sciences as well but still based on light.  We would never call the light light except God called it light and divided the darkness from the light one he called day and the other Night and the evening and the morning he called the first DAY.  this is teh first day of 24/7 because God is from everlasting and was long before this first day.

Eternity is God's Holy abode and has no darkness.  So his way of calculating time and distance is far different than ours which is limited to a 24/7 365 night and day Time Quantum.  That is what drives people crazy when they read verses like 1,000 years is as a day in your sight o' LORD and a day as a 1,000 years.  Because they are calculated differently.  they may or may not still have 24/7 once it enters eternal TQ again after Rev 21 but it seems eternity has a much different time element than the one we as men are limited too within the firmament.

One of the things that got me to understand that time and space have a different aspect was the first time I experienced a devil.  Some of you remember my sharig about a head floating in our room on night about 2 in the morning.  Well I could not tell you if that head was 6 feet away or 600.  it is hard to explain but I saw and knew that time calculation needed to understand distance just was not the same as we find in the 24/7.  but when it says half an hour it is half and hour why because God is speaking to men in a 24/7 understanding. When peter and the Psalmist speak they are speaking from a spiritual understanding that goes beyond our 24/7 which is eternity.

Consider these verses
Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.  here we are told a 1,000 years as if it has already past. So in eternity 1,000 years that is yet to come (in thy sight-looking forward in time) is as if it is already past.  heavy stuff no?  And as a "watch in the night" that is it is like a four hour period at night, or a very short time.   A 1,000 years is a very short period of time to the LORD or as if it is already past.  That is Eternity Time Quantum understood by a man in a 24/7 TQ

2Peter 3:8 ¶ But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.  What I learn from this is Peter wants us to know that there is a difference in a 24/7 day and the eternal concept of time measurement with God.  So we are not to be willfully ignoring that Eternity is on a different scale of measurement than our current 24/7 is.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.  In this verse God changes the reason he primarily gave for the Greater light to rule the day and a lesser light to rule the night Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever..  Originally the the Sun, moon and stars were for lights and for times, seasons, and signs.  Well at least here it is for light.  But we must remember this is a NEW SUN and A NEW MOON Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.   (maybe it is just limited to the New Jerusalem or it is for the whole earth.

So Eternity is a Quandary it seems we will have to get there to see what it is.  I am so glad we are bound for eternity because of the finished work of Christ and his alone.  I meditated on Georges statement about Moses writing more on the temple building, construction, coverings, and operations. And found that If we are the Temple of Holy Ghost, an habitation for God, then we should spend more time studying our Bibles to be Christ Centered, Christ Directed and Christ Like, then if that is working out in our lives, then we can spend some time on the least weightier matters such as Gap Theories or other such things.

Romans 8:29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

2Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.


2 Peter 3:5-7 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Whether this refers to the flood of Noah or the destruction of the earth prior to Gen 1:2, it is not saying that the willing ignorance is that of not understanding "that Eternity is on a different scale of measurement than our current 24/7 is".   The willing ignorance refers to the fact that things will not always continue as they are but that there is judgment coming, as God has judged the world in the past as we know from his record.  It is only by importing Relativity "scientific" theories into the Holy Bible that one could come to the conclusion that the warning is about the measurement of time.

The Relativity theory was "discovered" not because it explains the universe but rather because it was desperately needed to support Heliocentrism after the Michelson-Morley experiment in 1887 failed to find any velocity of the earth through the ether (air).   The Holy Bible does not describe a universe in which the earth travels on a course through heaven.  It describes a universe in which the planets and stars course through the heavens around a stationary earth.  When observable science failed to show the earth was moving, the foundations were already set for Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.  The Relativity theory is nonsense.  There were convincing detractors of this 'theory" then, as there are today.

The scientific atheist's answer to this observable experiment (Michelson-Morley  which was true science) was to say that since the earth appears not to be moving, then everything must be moving  relative to everything else, and that's why we can't observe it!  Their answer expressed mathematically made constants into variables, and a variable into a constant.  Time and space, which are constants, become variables, and the velocity of light, which they make into the ultimate speed that is possible in the universe with no proof whatsoever, becomes a constant.  The concept of gravity, which they do not understand, they make their "ace in the hole".   That's it!  Gravity, and the massiveness of heavenly bodies, cause space-time to bend!  It ain't in the Bible.  None of it.  It's no different than Darwin's theory of evolution, and many other ideas that come from science falsely so called.  C.S. Lewis had problems, but he did have a HUGE insight; the devil has changed his plan of attack.  In modern times, his deception is through scientific theories, but the result is still the same; hath God said?  God has never said that the earth travels on a circuit through the heaven, he says that the planets and stars have a circuit around the earth.  Atheistic scientists came up with our modern cosmology.  God has never said that time and space are variable, a Godless Jewish clerk was chosen to be jettisoned into almost unparalleled worldwide acclaim for his absurd ideas which were largely plagiarized.

One cannot deduce anything from experiencing a demonic manifestation, other than that they are evil and they lie.  I would not seek to gain any kind of doctrine or cosmology from that experience.
Jennifer
 

Day and Night

Postby Chette » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:34 am

Consider Genesis 1:4, 5 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.   And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

then compare it to Genesis 1:14, 18 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:. . .  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Artificial lights were made to carry on after the Light of God is removed from the sin filled firmament.

I am not trying to derail but merely add some insight unto the verse and what was taking place during the first 6 days.

Were there days before Genesis 1:3?

I am inclined to believe God's word that verse five was the first day.

before that it was just from everlasting.

24 hour Days and the Earth go together. and all that is within the firmament was set up to continue those days until some time to Everlasting.
Psalm 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding.

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Re: Gap Theory

Postby Jennifer » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:07 am

Were there days before Genesis 1:3?

I am inclined to believe God's word that verse five was the first day.


Well, have you considered Ezekiel 28?

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Of course we know Lucifer was created before Ge 1:3.  So, day existed before the creation account.  It may or may not have been the same as our 24/7 TQ, I don't know that scripture speaks to this.  (I know "quantum" means measurement but the word is highly charged with connotations of highly metaphysical Quantum Physics which is definitely not falsifiable science.)     

Although this occurs during the time of Job, it shows that there is a time measurement of a day in Heaven, just as there is an hour measurement in Heaven expressed in Revelation 8:1.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.



Does the Holy Spirit use the words day and hour "to speak to man from a spiritual understanding that goes beyond our 24/7 which is eternity", or is the Holy Spirit saying that there were days before Ge 1:3 and hours in Heaven, at least after the Genesis creation account?
Jennifer
 

Re: Gap Theory

Postby Jennifer » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:37 am

Then there are months in the Everlasting Kingdom, and by implication twelve months in a year.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Years are full of months, months are full of weeks, weeks are full of days, and days are full of hours. Interestingly, there are no "minutes" in the Bible.



Edit:

But there is a "moment", in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump.  

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Any moment now...
Jennifer
 

Re: Gap Theory

Postby Chette » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:37 am

yeah fascinating stuff.

The months found in Rev 21 are no measured by the sun and moon which were made for that purpose.

Seasons in Gen1:14 is a 3 month period times 4 seasons, days it takes 29.5 of them to equal one lunar month but no moon for month in Rev 21.  No sun for days and nights and they wont be needed for God shall be their light.

cool thing the Bible reveals
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