Fables and the KJV Bible Beleivers

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Fables and the KJV Bible Beleivers

Postby Chette » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:28 am

After analyzing  my experiences on other supposed KJV Bible Believing forums I have seen a disturbing trend among the members who claim to be Bible Believers.

They really are not real KJV Bible believers as much as they are respecters of men.  Now don't get me wrong I think that good godly men are needed and help us to grow in God's word but just because we respect them we should not just accept everything that comes out of their mouths.  These are quick to critique the teachers they don't agree with, KJV users or not, than they are to critique their own special chosen teachers.  They are quick to use their KJV Bible to check the teachers of whom they don't agree with but fail to do the same to one to whom they do agree with, the ones who taught them either in Bible college, through books or in the pulpit.

Paul commended the Bereans for studying to see if what Paul taught was true to the scriptures they had.  They did exactly as the Holy Ghost teacheth by comparing spiritual things to spiritual.  That is they took Paul's words and checked it with the verse he taught from to see if what was taught was correct and in context.

Acts 17:10, 11 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.   These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I have raised the flag on numerous posts lately where men have made repeated teaching of other MEN without checking the word of God to see if what they teach is true.  and because I believe the word of God over the teaching of men I have been labeled a Hyper-dispensationalist, member of the Berean Bible society and a non-bible believer.  All these name labels made derogatorily to cast doubt upon my words because, I use the scriptures to prove mens teaching was in error to the word of God and not just taking it for granted.

But this is all part of the Laodicean age of apostasy where men are leaving sound doctrine and allowing sound doctrine to be twisted, heaping up teachers and preachers for themselves because they like their ears tickled and are to lazy to search to see whether the things they are taught are true tot he word of God.

2Ti 4:3, 4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The word Fable is used Five times and in every use the context leaves us only one conclusion If we give ourselves over to following fables we will be led astray from the truth.  

here are the four times used of Paul and all targeted at the church in the church age.

1Tim 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do].
1Tim 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself [rather] unto godliness.
2Tim 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

A fable is a constructed story used to drive home an application for ones life.  Bible fables have been constructed by godly and ungodly men in these days and these fables will do one thing take away from sound doctrine and truth of the word of God as found in the AV text.

Fables will gender questioning
Fables will turn people away from the truth
Fables will cause people to be ungodly (that is why the exhortation to "exercise thyself rather unto godliness.)
Fables go contrary to and turn the hearers away from sound doctrine

It would seem that a true Bible Believer who would check God's word to see if something is true is no longer a desired person in Bible Study circles.  And if you use scriptures to correct, admonish, exhort, refute, rebuke another Christian you are not welcomed, treated with disrespect and immediately you will be called Arrogant, Argumentative, Disruptive, hyper-dispensational member of the Berean Bible Society.  And of course my favorite "I have a pastor and I don't need you to correct me"  as if their pastor was with them 24/7.

Well the signs of the last days of the church age are upon us in full blown multi-color unity of apostasy.

2Timothy 3:1-9 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.   For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,  Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,  Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;  Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.   For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,  Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.   Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.  But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
Psalm 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding.

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Re: Fables and the KJV Bible Beleivers

Postby George » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:09 pm

Aloha Brother Chette,

Now you know why I posted the Thread on "WHY I AM NOT A MEMBER OF ANY OTHER BIBLE FORUM".

After Discounting all of the Cults, and the Roman Catholic Church, and the Greek Orthodox Church, and the Mainline Protestant Churches, and the so-called "Fundamentalists" and "Evangelicals", etc.. and after having dealt with far too many so-called King James Bible believers ("professors") for over 43 years I have discovered that "talk is cheap".

Practically speaking, everything and everyone is OUT OF ORDER in these perilous times [2Timothy 3:1]. Government is Out Of Order; Business is Out Of Order; the Media is Out Of Order; the Educational Institutions are Out Of Order; Our Society (and the entire Culture) is Out Of Order; the major "Christian" Denominations are Out Of Order; and sad to say, the same can be said about most professing Bible believers!

Within so-called Bible believing circles many "pastors" (i.e. church leaders) are Out Of Order; many the KJB churches are Out Of Order; many wives are Out Of Order; and many individual Christians are Out Of Order. This state of affairs (amongst so-called Bible believers) is not due so much to a "lack of knowledge", as to an unwillingness to follow and obey even the simplest Bible precepts, principles, and doctrines set down by the Apostle Paul for our learning and benefit.

The recent attack against you (by two women) on another Forum is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Those two women took what you had written (as fact) as a "personal" affront (or insult, or offense) and became offended; but instead of dealing with what you said, they turned around and personally verbally assaulted you - maligning your character and impugning your motives.

In view of the following Scriptures, is this how Bible believing Christian women are supposed to conduct themselves? I DON'T THINK SO!

1 Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

1 Timothy 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

Even though you are not an "elder" (or pastor) in their church, as an "elder" and fellow brother in Christ they are still obligated to obey the Scriptures concerning this matter. The fact that you may not be a member of their sect or denomination does not give them "a pass" regarding these Scriptural commandments. Selective obedience to Scripture is frowned upon by God (see Ananias & Sapphira - Acts 5:1-11).

Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

When Christian women go out of their way and attack an "elder" and fellow brother in Christ in order to supposedly defend a fellow "sister" (shades of Western Feminism!) in Christ, they are OUT OF BIBLICAL ORDER and possibly blaspheming the word of God.

1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Are these Scriptures confined to a "church setting" only? I trow not. In the today's secular world women exercise authority over men, but we (as genuine Bible believers) are not supposed to be conformed to this world [Romans 12:2]. We (all genuine Bible believers - men & women) are supposed to follow God's Holy words and be in subjection to all of the Scriptures that are applicable to Christians (i.e. members of the body of Christ); we do not have the liberty to "pick and choose" which Scriptures we will follow and which one's we will either ignore or disobey.

There are more Scriptures dealing with this issue but I will cite only one more example to reinforce what I have said.

1 Peter 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

I am not going to get into husband/wife relationship or the dispensational aspects of these verses, but instead (since All Scripture is profitable - 2 Timothy 3:16), I will make a spiritual application concerning women (including Christian women) in general. Sara (Sarai or Sarah - Abraham's wife) is set forth as an "example" - not only as an obedient wife, but also as an "example" of a holy woman who possessed "a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. Are these qualities ("of great price") of "the holy women" of "old time" being sought after by Western Christian women today? Were those qualities exhibited by the two women (who profess to be Bible believers) who verbally attacked you and personally berated you on a public Forum? I TROW NOT!

Brother Chette, through this whole ordeal you do have something to be thankful for, and that is the fact that you are not married to either one of those women.


1 Peter 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
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. . . . . yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written . . . . . Romans 3:4
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Re: Fables and the KJV Bible Beleivers

Postby Chette » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:27 am

I had a little laugh at the last sentence there.  That sad fact is both of them will more than likely have their marriages end in divorce.

After I got finished posting this thread I had realized this must have been what you were feeling.

I never had a bad heart posting any of the things I said.  I wasn't being arrogant, I was not attacking or angry, I was not being abusive, abrasive, disruptive or any other trait assigned me yet that is how they READ the posts.  I could not have been any more gentile than I was even over looking being called arrogant though her words were "arrogant statement" but what one would apply to my words reflects on the one who spoke them.

It is funny how so many people think they can read your attitude through printed words where there was not attitude.

I never gave myself undue degree of importance nor did I set myself up assuming or haughty.   I never set myself up as a final authority but solely the KJV Bible as the final authority.

I never tried to attribute an Identifiable attitude to either of the ladies words.  Though with the second one it was far more clear to see she was on an attack with an attitude but not once did I try to identify what that attitude was.  I used some scriptures and while the later may have a husband I bet he is not with her 24/7 either.

While our earthly human teachers, professors, pastors, husbands, wives, religion, sect, cult or denomination can ever be with us 24/7, the one who is with us to teach us the Holy Ghost, who never leaves us nor forsakes us, clearly seems to be set aside as a 24/7 teacher of Scriptures in all activities of many lives of supposed Bible Believers who say they study to show themselves approved.

That is why when I read forums where you were, well, misunderstood by some ladies in the past I just couldn't get what they were so upset about.  I could not see in any of your words any attitude that might have triggered it.  But then in dawned on me.  the scriptures you used some how struck a nerve that sent their interpreting spirit into a frenzy and they took it as an attack.  this is because we all like to think of ourselves as obeying God's word at all times in all areas of our lives but we don't.  so when the scriptures which operate in a persons heart differently than our words strike them to the quick they go on an attack.

In my case it is my remarks on the KJV text being good for all English speaking peoples of the world no matter what culture.  These women don't want to drop their Westernized culture which comes across in their dress, attitudes or actions for the Bibles culture of the verses as you quoted above.  and like I said if the Bible goes against your culture you have to drop it and take on the Bible culture.   Of course the first one took that as meaning replace local culture with American culture and that is not what I said.

You and I are amongst a vanishing breed of Bible Believers, a breed that needs to be kept pure and not intermixed with the so called Bible Believers of our day.  This web site is a testament to the fact that there are far fewer true Bible believers who stick to the simple word of God, not our opinions, not our views, not our understanding but God's simple word as found in the AV Text.  We are not perfect nor do we claim to have attained it but through Christ we shall.

The mind is a mysterious part of a mans soul but through Christ we can be one in mind but few Christians are these days even among Bible believers.
1Co 1:10 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Php 1:27 ¶ Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Php 2:5  Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Col 3:12 ¶ Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Many think that they are these verses but the fact they don't use the word of God to correct themselves, and check what they are taught, shows they are not of the vanishing breed of Bible Believers they so long to be a part of.

blessings
Psalm 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding.

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Re: Fables and the KJV Bible Beleivers

Postby Chette » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:27 pm

I was having an interesting conversation with one of them on culture.  My statement basically was if your culture (American, Western, Feminine, African, European, Oriental, Latin, South Pacific, Arabic, etc . .  culture) goes against what the Bible teaches then we need to drop our culture and embrace the Bibles culture in place of it.

that led from one thing to another and finally to a comparison of Bible versions in different language.  I stated that if your Bible in your language is the same as the KJV then you have a preserved word of God.  and I gave her only a few hot spots to check.  Most of it agreed as she said it was "Almost" all in agreement.  She gave one example of where it does not agree and that was Isa 14:12 here is what she said.

"Then about Lucifer in Isaiah, our Bible translators in the times of old didn't want Lucifer to give the honor of that title, so they gave him a lowercase morningstar that is way less then the title Lucifer was -> Light bearer/bringer. He didn't deserve that title because Jesus Christ was the Light. Also the word Lucifer is Latin! and is used in the RC Vulgate and that also were reasons to NOT use it. Morningstar is not wrong and they have given it good thought and prayer. The Lord wanted it in the Dutch OLD Bible like that so it is correct, whatever people say."

Ok I don't fully agree but that is her opinion.  But if you examine exactly what she has said you will discover some very useful understanding of cultural interpretation going on. It is a similar cultural interpretation process that led SCHOLARS to interpret Dan 3:25 as one of the sons of the gods or a son of the gods.  Scholars did not want Nebuchadnezzar to show he knew who the son of God is (not that he knew it was Jesus Christ) but he did know by Dan 3 who the God of Daniel was.  But they just couldn't stand to have this pagan king know something or someone they may not know.

Well the same thing with her statement, the "our Bible translators" scholars who translated the Bible into Dutch figured they were smarter than God and that Lucifer shouldn't be there because it was a Latin name (a poor argument at best seeing the English language gets words from all previous languages).  And they certainly couldn't allow morning star to be capitalized because they figured Lucifer "didn't deserve that title".  Does the lower case morning star actually calling by a lesser title?  not really.  Then these scholars also under their cultural interpretation did not want to literally Translate the Hebrew word "heylel" as light bearer or bright one, shinning one when the word never means morning star.  Lucifer was by far the best English word to Translate "heylel" as it kept the flow, caused no confusion (lowercase uppercase people will still be confused), and gives the reader a deeper understanding of what God was inspiring for them to know.

Just so we are all one the same page here O'morning star is not found in any Hebrew text.  And while we understand the problem of using the "title" morning star for Lucifer would be an error because it would cause confusion with the real morning star, Jesus Christ that does not make using upper or lower case renderings the correct interpretation.  

I like what Will Kenny says about Isa 14:12, "It should be pointed out that we King James Bible believers do not believe the KJB translators were inspired nor do we believe their own thoughts, their Preface or their own theology was always right. We believe and defend THE TEXT of the King James Bible as having been guided by God Almighty to give us His perfect words of 100% truth. God overruled the occasional marginal readings and guided them to put in THE TEXT what He wanted to be there."

I don't believe that just because some Dutch scholars prayed about it means it is inspired of God or the correct translation. It is called cultural preference but not correct inspiration. For anyone wishing to read the problems of the interpretation of O'morning star in Isa 14 please go here  viewtopic.php?f=15&t=612&p=4452#p4452

The point is the interpretation was a Dutch cultural scholarly translation rather than an preserved, inspired word of God.  Culture goes deeper than the clothed people wear, the words they speak, it even is seen in how they interpret things they read and hear.  Like my statements when they took them as an attack on them personally, or as assuming, abusive, and my favorite arrogant.  those interpretations come from their westernized feminist culture.

Lastly, if her translation fully agreed with the AV she would have in her language a far better translation than the one she enjoys now.
Last edited by Chette on Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fables and the KJV Bible Beleivers

Postby George » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:51 pm

Aloha Brother Chette,

I have been thinking and meditating upon this very subject for sometime now, and I am in agreement with your belief about "culture".

CULTURE CONQUERS – BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY FRACTURES & DIVIDES

“CULTURE” conquers nearly all those who are born into it; or who are overcome by it; or who willingly embrace it. From the perspective of history: Biblical Christianity has fractured a Culture (e.g. the early Pauline churches), and it can divide people from their culture (e.g. all genuine Bible believers), but true Biblical Christianity has never conquered a Culture.

The early Christian missionaries to Hawaii were extremely successful in fracturing the existing Hawaiian culture (which was on the verge of collapse from the abuse of the "Kapu" system), but they never conquered it. At one point (after the introduction of the Gospel) the Hawaiian people were considered successfully "Evangelized", but eventually "culture" overcame whatever Biblical teaching they may have received, and by the time that I arrived in Hawaii there was very little sound Biblical doctrine left in the so-called "Hawaiian churches" (which are voluntarily and purposely ethnically segregated for people of "Hawaiian Heritage"); and the Hawaiian Islands are as Pagan and Idolatrous today as ever.

Whenever we read (or hear) someone’s point of view concerning any subject (i.e. all issues relating to - government, education, creation, religion, etc.), as Bible believing Christians, we must always take into account WHERE someone is from (i.e. their CULTURE), WHAT their “BELIEF SYSTEM” consists of, and “CONSIDER THE SOURCE”; if not, we might adopt (or embrace) a belief or an opinion contrary to the Holy word of God. It would be far more prudent not to adopt a position on a particular issue if we can not adequately defend it from Scripture.

As far as genuine Bible believers are concerned, we can NOT HAVE MORE THAN ONE "FINAL AUTHORITY". I believe that it may be desirable to translate the Holy Scriptures into various languages for Christians who may not be familiar with English, but if those translations DIFFER from the King James Bible, in any place (and for whatever reason), The King James Bible must be our "FINAL AUTHORITY" (no matter what our native language) in all matters of faith or practice or else we will end up with "multiple authorities" which can only lead to confusion, discord, and division, which the recent disagreement (between yourself and two Christian women) on the other Forum clearly has demonstrated.

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
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Fables, the KJV Bible Beleivers and Culture

Postby Chette » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:01 am

One of the biggest hurdles we are having here right now getting youth into our church is that unlike all the Other churches we don't have hip hop/break dancing , Ballet or modern dance groups that they can join in and entertain.

We went to a recent "love Waits" conference.  a 6 hour seminar program meant to educate youth on the dangers of premarital sex (fornication), homosexuality (abusers of themselves with mankind, effeminate), and How God sees it as sin as well as it can spread disease and moral corruption of the family.  the sponsoring church between each topic chose to have their dance groups dance perform.

It consisted of hip hop, forms of ballet and modern dance.  this is how the dancing related messages that go against what was taught and showed even the truth about what is behind it.  One dance had the hip hop/ break dancing Christians bouncing, shaking and grabbing themselves some cool Christian entertainment.  

But the next dance set had a combination of hip hop and a skit.  This skit dance was about a girl struggling to abort her baby because she had sex outside of marriage and the man was no where around to help and of course it basically blamed the man for the pregnancy.  so she lays down to sleep and has a vision and during this time the hip hop devils come out and are bouncing and grabbing all around, then a effeminate Jesus type ballet man came out (by the way the performer is gay and effeminate member of the sponsoring church).  He is trying to get her to trust him by putting out his hand.  she then is dragged by the devils to the awaiting abortionist  where she comes out sickly holding a bloodied rag as if it was the fetus and collapses in to a coma.  She awakes to find she is ok and then immediately prays to receive Christ and then everything is ok.

Before I share the next dance you can see one dance portrays Christians hip hop break dancing the next one show the devils hip hop break dancing.  so which ones is the church portraying are really the ones who hip hop and break dance Christians or devils?  it pictures a Compromised Christian who has conformed tot he world.

The next dance was a ballet/modern dance, remember now this is a seminar on abstinence of sexual activities.  So they are all dancing around to some some modern music a lady and the (effeminate) man and a group the girls swirls around and is drawn into temptations to by her friends/peers but standing strong in her faith to remain pure she endures and she is successful in remaining pure.  At this point the choreographer trained them to put a large white sheet over her from four corners it slid down over her like a skirt and once in place all the female and male dancers are all under her skirt where you cant see them.  end of dance

What message do you think that really sent?

One of the points in the Seminar is very disturbing as well.  As long as you can do these things and it honors God then it is ok to do them.  They feel they are honoring god with these dances and mixed messages and therefore it is ok and accepted of God.  They have no idea how to know the difference between the profane and the Holy because they are not taught the word of God.  The sponsoring church hold 1 1/2 hours of worship, then 15 to 20 minutes of teaching FROM the word, not teaching OF the word, and then follow that with another 30minutes of worship.  these people are getting overdosed on endorphins and adrenaline and think it is God moving in their midst.

Well the hole point is to show that Modern Media Culture has taken over the churches.  the very thing Christians should be not doing are being done.  The churches here have failed not to be worldly with a flair.  And if you point it out you are considered dogmatic, don't have the right attitude for a pastor for their pastoral fellowships.  Instead of fighting the world and the Modern Media Culture these churches have embraced it.  Hence if you don't or are not doing these programs your just not a desirable church to go to, especially if all you do is teach the word of God and sound doctrine as has been handed down.

But the truth is this, these churches have failed in teaching the word of God in truth and following things like:

Romans 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.   And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Last edited by Chette on Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fables and the KJV Bible Beleivers

Postby Sarge » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:57 am

Thanks for speaking out about this, Brother!
I will share this at church this afternoon.
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(2 Cor. 5:14,15)

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Re: Fables and the KJV Bible Beleivers

Postby Chette » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:26 am

The Seminar is rather informative and a great way to reach the unsaved youth from the High schools and colleges.  the people who give the seminar are rather conservation some even Calvinists.

But the church that sponsored the event here is highly charismatic and worldly, and of the Covenant Theology movement.  Some of the members of the teaching team from Love Wait Philipines actually did not care to much for the dances and how their performances cut into their time of teaching and the last part of the teaching was cut short by 15 minutes.

Yeah the culture of the Media has a strong effect on the youth today
Psalm 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding.

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