Question on Salvation?

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Question on Salvation?

Postby Chette » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:00 pm

Is salvation given men by just believing and confessing that Jesus died, was buried and rose on the third day?

Or is salvation given man when that man believes that Jesus Died for their sins, buried and rose on the third day and then confessing that?

The Gospel that Paul presented clearly states that Christ died for our sins 1Cor 15:3, 4, yet as of late in some churches I am not hearing about him dying for our sins but just believe he died, was buried and rose again and confess that with ones mouth.  I even hear that Jesus died for them with no indication it was their sin he died for.

Am I being to picky or are they just assuming all men know Jesus died for their sins?
Psalm 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding.

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Re: Question on Salvation?

Postby PeanutGallery » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:36 pm

Chette wrote:Is salvation given men by just believing and confessing that Jesus died, was buried and rose on the third day?

Or is salvation given man when that man believes that Jesus Died for their sins, buried and rose on the third day and then confessing that?

I heard one person state that Jesus died for their sins so they can now live life to the fullest.

Maybe salvation is given to the man who can biblically define sin.
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Re: Question on Salvation?

Postby George » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:30 pm

Aloha Brother Chette,

I believe that the answer to your question is found in the Gospel of John, Chapter One, Verses Eleven through Thirteen:

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


I have known some men (i.e. Catholics & Pentecostals foremost) who believe that Christ died, was buried, and rose again from the dead, but they have never trusted in Christ as their personal Saviour. Generally speaking, those men cannot, or more likely will not, accept Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary for all of their sins. They believe that there must be something that they must do (some ‘additional work’ themselves) in order to receive the eternal salvation of God; and that there must be something that they must do (some ‘additional work’ themselves) in order to keep it! And in doing so they refuse to actually receive Him.

When a person truly receives the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour, they believe that Christ “finished” the work of salvation on Calvary on their behalf [John 19:30], since there is nothing that they can do to either earn God’s salvation themselves, or keep it! When a person believes “on his name” and receives “Him”, they personally receive the Lord Jesus Christ (i.e. His Person) and trust in His work for their personal salvation. Just to acknowledge that Christ died, was buried, and rose again without a genuine belief that He died for our sins (i.e. my personal sins), is not enough: “devils also believe” some of the things about the person of Christ [James 2:19], and about His work in obtaining our salvation [Acts 16:17], but it is quite obvious from the testimony of Scripture that “devils” and “evil spirits” are not saved!

John 1:11-13 is the scriptural ‘KEY’ that unlocks the spiritual understanding of God’s salvation.

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
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. . . . . yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written . . . . . Romans 3:4
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Re: Question on Salvation?

Postby George » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:05 pm

Aloha Brother Chette,

An additional comment to what I posted yesterday:

God’s Salvation occurs when a person BELIEVES ON the Lord Jesus Christ (not just ABOUT Him) and RECEIVES Him as their personal Saviour. Believing ON Christ indicates a complete TRUST IN HIM to “perform” that which we could never do on our own.

The Apostle Paul, in writing about “the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all” [Romans 4:16], said that Abraham was “fully persuaded that, what he (i.e. God) had promised, he (i.e. God) was able also to perform” [Romans 4:21]. Paul also was “confident” (IN CHRIST and in His work on Paul’s behalf – not in himself) that “he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:” [Philippians 1:6].

There are many people who believe some things ABOUT the Lord Jesus Christ, but they have never believed ON HIM (or IN HIM). It is not enough to just acknowledge that Christ lived, died, was buried, and rose the third day (although He did all those things for us, i.e. sinners), we must BELIEVE ON HIM and RECEIVE HIM as our personal SAVIOUR in order to receive God’s salvation.


Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
George Anderson    http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/

. . . . . yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written . . . . . Romans 3:4
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Re: Question on Salvation?

Postby Chette » Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:54 pm

I have also heard it preached that one must believe he is the Messiah, the Christ, the son of God.

while receiving him with a belief in his finished sacrificial work on the cross, being buried and rose again, never did Paul say we, Gentiles, need to believe he is any of those titles above.  

While we know he is those things they are not part of the Gospel of the Grace of God.

Since being back in the States I am really disappointed in churches.  I have tried not to be overly critical but the baby food sermons and the lack of right division coupled with the business/money making atmosphere of the local fellowships.  The church organizations are just businesses with men using the pulpit and the gospel to make merchandise of the people who attend.  The calling to a pastor is not a job with all the benefits of a CEO but a calling to live by faith.  Also these men show they have little faith when they keep saying the church needs your tithes and offerings.  My God is big enough to take care of the needs of his people who serve him but they act as if the people don't give the church can't do its thing.  And because of this type of business styled ministry they are watering down and adding to the Gospel of the Grace of God in order to get new members.  

It would seem that some rewards are already taken so what will be left when they face the Lord?

Anyway like I said maybe I am being overly critical but I am truly disappointed in the current state of the Local church.

It is no wonder that a religion that promotes murder, sexual immorality and covetousness are so appealing and are increasing at record pace, and that murders in the name of that god, are taking place by neo-converts at record rate.

either God is cleaning house or the end is near.
Psalm 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding.

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Re: Question on Salvation?

Postby George » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:40 pm

Aloha Brother Chette,

I am in full agreement with everything that you said in your last post.

Have you ever wondered why the Lord has had you move from an island back to the mainland USA? I have often wondered WHY He had my wife and I move to the mainland from our island ‘paradise’ and I am convinced that part of the reason was to have us observe and experience (first hand) the growing and unchecked apostasy that is taking place in the churches of God that exist throughout the United States.

After our move to the mainland USA, we lived in Tulsa, Oklahoma where there is, not only ‘a church on every corner of the block’, but at least two or three in between! There were a multitude of churches (various Protestant churches, Church of Christ, Methodist, Pentecostal {of various stripes}, Baptist {of various beliefs}, etc., etc.). But, we couldn’t find one true Bible believing church amongst the whole lot! Oh, there were a few (a very few) ‘professing’ Bible believing churches, but when it came down to scriptural practice and conduct those ‘professing’ churches were emulating Jack Hyles’ style of ministry (i.e. an emphasis on numbers, tithing, and success) rather than following the scriptural pattern laid out in the Holy Bible. ‘Profession’ is one thing; ‘possession’ is quite another matter.

I believe that we are living in “the last days”:

    2 Timothy 3:1 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

    2 Peter 3:3 ¶ Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts.

And “the whole world lieth in wickedness”:

1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

Consider what the Lord Jesus Christ said about the condition of the world just prior to His return:

    Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
    27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
    28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
    29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
    30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Go back and read about “as it was in the days of Noah" and consider that “the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually”; and that “the earth was filled with violence” [Genesis 6:1-13]. And again, go back and read about “as it was in the days of Lot" and take note of the “pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness” that was present in Sodom; and then add the fact that “they (i.e. the Sodomites) were haughty, and committed abomination” (i.e. sexual perversion) before God [Ezekiel 16:49-50]. Now, if those verses of Scripture don’t describe the condition of our present world, what does?

Consider this also, when it came to the spiritual influence those righteous men had amongst their friends, neighbors, and the community in which they lived, they only were able to save their families {in Lot’s case, only Lot and his two daughters (both of whom were obviously perversely influenced by the ‘culture’ in which they lived) were saved}. NOTE: Noah preached for 120 years and never saw one convert! ‘Culture’ matters. ‘Culture’ conquers, or overcomes, practically all those who live within it! And our Humanistic ‘Culture’ (i.e. Society’s belief system) has been in the process of leavening the professing churches of God for well over 200 years through Education (read ‘formal schooling’) and the godless Philosophy of Humanism (Psychology foremost).

We are living in “perilous times” [2Timothy 3:1-9] brother, and the spiritual state of the churches of God on earth (i.e. those churches which ‘profess’ to be Bible believing) is precarious at best. The Apostle Paul warned about these days and yet most of today’s church leaders (read “pastors”) fail to make the scriptural application to themselves or to ‘their churches’.

Since our lively discussions concerning bishops/pastors/elders and the church of God (beginning in 2010 SEE: “BIBLE TESTIMONY CONCERNING – BISHOPS/PASTORS/ELDERS”) I have been engaged in an exhaustive study concerning the Biblical historical “church of God” (which is not yet completed) and I have reached the conclusion that God set forth the historical church of God, as found within the pages of the Holy Bible, as an example, or a pattern, for all genuine churches of God to follow; and the failure of a church to follow that example (or pattern) and adhere to the scriptural principles concerning church governance can only lead to the spiritual deterioration, decline, decay, and collapse of that church and its eventual departure from the faith (i.e. apostasy), which is the historical record of every single “Christian church” that has ever existed from the time of the Apostle Paul up to the present time.

There are two verses of Scripture that are highly relevant to this issue.

1. The Lord Jesus Christ set forth a Scriptural precept in the Book of Matthew that is universal in its application (i.e. it wasn’t limited to just the Jews or the nation of Israel).

   Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

You will notice that the address is to “Man” (in general). This is a universal truth (and principle) which applies to all mankind. “Man” is supposed to live . . . by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God”.

2. The Apostle Paul (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) set forth a Scriptural precept in his Second Letter to Timothy that is directly applicable to anyman who is called of God to be a leader (i.e. an elder, steward, minister, preacher, teacher, pastor, etc.) in the church of God.

    2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

According to the Holy Bible, every single man and woman who chooses to ignore (or reject) the first Scriptural precept found in Matthew 4:4 is in mortal danger of eternal separation from Almighty God. And every single leader in the church of God who chooses to ignore (or reject) either one or both of these Scriptural precepts is in danger of having most (if not all) of his works burned up and the loss of most (if not all) of his rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

    1 Corinthians 3:11 ¶ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
    12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
    13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
    14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
    15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If the above Scriptural precepts and principles are true (and I have no doubt that they are), WHY have “Christian” leaders, both in the past and today, chosen to either ignore or reject the Holy words of God (as found within the Holy Bible) concerning church governance or polity, When:

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is RIGHT; and ALL his works are done in TRUTH.
George Anderson    http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/

. . . . . yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written . . . . . Romans 3:4
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Re: Question on Salvation?

Postby Chette » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:14 pm

Thank you George.

As of late I too have found that the basis of all relationships is communication with words.  God communicated his words to us and preserved them for us and the relationship we have with him through the Word, first Christ by substitute death and then the Holy Bible are of utmost importance.

Communication with words is the key to deep and lasting relationships.  God gave us the best example of that in and through the preservation of his word and the giving of his son.

How true it is that words are key to truth even if some use them to deceive,  i.e the devil.

your intuitiveness to words are of valuable insight to me.

Again thanks but why did you edit your original post about words?  

It was compelling and full of insight.  Not that the edit was not, it too was equally important and I could not agree more with it.

As I read the edit I froze and contemplated on my own work.  I know in my heart I did not ignore his word and still believe we are all to live by it.  and all his words are for the very things he listed in 2Tim 3:16, 17 which by the way I just preached on two Sundays ago at the last minute request of the pastor of the church we have been attending.

I am like you, wondering how much longer and am watching for the Lord's return.  

I find the context of 2Ttim 3 especially the first 5 verses starts in chapter two and it is the men of the church, the saved, in which verse 1-3 are speaking.  my deduction comes from Paul never giving any type of instruction to ever not fellowship with a person of the world but of brethren who are in error, sin or deceiving.  follow his instructions on whom not to fellowship also tells us he is speaking of the church in 2Tim 3 1-5 not men of the world.  For worldly men always have acted in those ways.  It is men of the church who are going to be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,  Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,  Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;  Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof:.  An observation of the above scripture is uncannily similar to what Paul said in Romans chapter One.  Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
  Not only that but if this is not how leaders (read Pastors) treat one another today having pleasure in them that do the same as they, I don't know what is.

Aw yes, these are the last days indeed.
Psalm 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding.

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Re: Question on Salvation?

Postby Chette » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:49 pm

If the Lord has brought us back here to see first hand the apostasy, then what is it he wants nobodies like you and I to do about it?

You have peaked my interest in seeing that this may be a reason why he brought us to the mainland.

What are we to do?

I still hold God's word up as a standard of study, life and godliness.  That by him (his word as well) we live and have our being.
Psalm 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding.

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Re: Question on Salvation?

Postby George » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:40 pm

Aloha Brother Chette,

You said:
“Again thanks but why did you edit your original post about words?

It was compelling and full of insight.  Not that the edit was not, it too was equally important and I could not agree more with it.”

I think that you are referring to my first post and the follow-up post that followed it on your Thread “Question of Salvation”. And the answer to your question is: after I posted my reply I reviewed the post to check for errors, and upon my review I felt that it was incomplete and needed a short summary, or condensed statement, to complete my comments.

Whenever I post on the Forum (whether my own Thread or in reply to someone else’s Thread), except for short answers, I always compose the post on my word processor and copy it over to the Forum’s quirky editor. After making a post on the Forum I always review the post and compare it to the ‘original’ (on my word processor), and then check it for errors; justification of paragraphs; and general appearance. Once in awhile, in the course of my review, something may occur to me that I think may add to (or improve) a post. Normally I would edit the post before posting it to the Forum, but on rare occasions I may make a short follow-up post (a P.S.?) to something I may have already posted if I feel it may be edifying.

I hope I haven’t confused you and that this short reply answers your question.

As to your last post in this Thread, I have no idea as to what the Lord has in store for us. All I know is that I have learned to be content (wherever I may be) and to be thankful to God for His many blessings and continued support. And I strive to continue to be faithful to His Holy word and to stand against all error, false doctrine, and heresy; and against anyone, who is engaged in leavening, perverting, or changing the Holy words of God – regardless as to whether they are saved or lost, man or woman, or ‘pastor’ or ‘congregant’.

May our God continue to bless both you and yours, your brother in Christ,

George

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
George Anderson    http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/

. . . . . yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written . . . . . Romans 3:4
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