Standard of Living.

1 Corinthians 3:1
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If so then there may be many many questions in your mind in regards to living a Christ centred life, how do you do it, how should you read your Bible, what is sound doctrine? This section of the site if for anyone who may have recently, by the Grace of God, been born again or indeed anyone that desires the sincere milk of the word. Ask questions in this section no matter how trivial or silly you may think they are, we must all grow in Grace 2 Peter 3:18

Standard of Living.

Postby Mia » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:47 am

Is there any wrong in wanting to own your home some day, to look at what you have and want your kids to have more?

Would it be better to work 40 hours a week,  live in a space that is really small and falling apart but see your kids more then work two jobs but be able to provide with out welfare, be able to give everyone a room, food, clothing but not be around as much.

Should Christians having a savings for if some happens? Is there any reason for it or against it?

I no I should  trust in God to provide everything that we need, and that my husband should be providing through God, but at the end of the day shouldn't he desire to provide better if he could?
Psalms 147:3  He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds.
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Re: Standard of Living.

Postby armadillo » Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:34 pm

Please allow me to split up your post and attempt to answer your questions in a different order.

Mia wrote:Is there any wrong in wanting to own your home some day, to look at what you have and want your kids to have more?


No, not if it is within your means and God supplies the provision.  Yes, if it is from covetousness and would cause spiritual harm.

Mia wrote:Should Christians having a savings for if some happens? Is there any reason for it or against it?


Sure, there is nothing wrong with having an emergency fund, it is a good idea.  Most financial planners recommend having 3 to 6 months of expenses saved up as an emergency fund.

Mia wrote:Would it be better to work 40 hours a week,  live in a space that is really small and falling apart but see your kids more then work two jobs but be able to provide with out welfare, be able to give everyone a room, food, clothing but not be around as much.

...

I no I should  trust in God to provide everything that we need, and that my husband should be providing through God, but at the end of the day shouldn't he desire to provide better if he could?


Sister Mia,

These are some very important questions and most certainly appear to be heavy on your heart and mind.  I believe that a deep rooted issue should be addressed.  It appears to me that you are attempting to gather support against your husband, to manipulate him, to guilt him into believing that he is not the man, the husband, the dad that he should be.  If he is a lazy bum, unwilling to work and to provide for his family, then you should be in prayer and fasting for your husband, praying for God to get a hold of him.  However, if he is working and providing a living and you are simply not satisfied with the "standard of living" that he is able to provide, then you need to be in prayer and fasting for yourself.  Your own husband is your spiritual head and to him you should be in submission and to him you should look for your answers.

Ephesians 5:22  Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23  For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24  Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.


Concerning women, the Bible says
1 Corinthians 14:35  And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home...


Colossians 3:18  ¶Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.


Titus 2:3  The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4  That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5  To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.


1 Peter 3:1  ¶Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2  While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3  Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4  But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5  For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6  Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.


Society promotes a much higher standard of living than is necessary and it has already bankrupted many nations.  It is possible to live well on a single income, trusting God that he will provide those things that are necessary.  I do not know your specific situation, but I imagine that you, like most people, have expenses that are not necessary.  Nearly every nation is in a depression and yet the people continue to live as though these are boom years. Many people, like their nations, are continuing to prop up their lifestyle using credit, enslaving themselves and future generations to debt. If you have food, clothing, and shelter, consider yourself to be blessed; for many are those who have lost everything, who are homeless and jobless.

1 Timothy 6:6  ¶But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7  For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8  And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9  But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10  For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.



If you are together as a family, consider yourself blessed. If your husband has a job, consider yourself blessed. If there is food on the table, consider yourself blessed.  If you are able to shop for clothes at goodwill and thrift stores, consider yourself to be blessed. If you have indoor plumbing that works, consider yourself to be blessed.

You have only a few short years to have your children at home, for them to know their dad, for him to have an influence in their lives. It would be a grave mistake to squander that time, chasing a lifestyle that cannot please.

My family is on no form of welfare, I have a wife and six children at home.  I make well below the "poverty" level, yet we are not in want, God supplies all our needs and we have plenty to give away.  However, we do have the advantage of having lived in Mexico for five years and so we have seen real poverty. We have seen families living at the edge of the city dump, scavenging for their food and clothes, living in a one room shelter pieced together from discarded fork-lift pallets covered with cardboard, with no electricity and no indoor plumbing.  We have seen a man and his wife living in this state, bow their heads and thank God for what they had, because they knew people worse off than themselves. You see, they had each other, they had their health, they had food and clothes and a roof over their head, and they knew people who did not have those things.

As believers, it is important that we spend more time thanking God for what we do have, than longing for things we do not have.  Material things cannot bring pleasure, they cannot satisfy nor bring contentment.  Many people who have wealth beyond reason are not satisfied, are miserable, do not have enough, and only desire to have more.  I would strongly encourage you to find contentment, praise God for what you have, and to search your heart and soul using the scriptures; spend some time in prayer with fasting and seek contentment from God.

Daniel
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Re: Standard of Living.

Postby Mia » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:32 pm

Brother Armadillo-

Thank you for your response and in no way was I meaning to gather support against my husband( or be manipulative in any way) he works really hard for us and does a good job at providing to the best of his ability and I am blessed to have  a husband who is willing to work at all, and who tries as hard as I have seen him. He is a good man and when I posted this I was not Thinking clearly beyond stress and in some ways fear of the unknown . I have praying a lot for direction and guidance and will keep praying.

I agree with you completely and thank you your words were encouraging and exactly what I No and needed to hear.
Psalms 147:3  He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds.
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Re: Standard of Living.

Postby George » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:42 pm

Aloha Sister Mia,

I tried to answer your questions yesterday but the Forum editor froze up on me. I now believe that God wanted brother Daniel's White's testimony to precede mine; and let me say that I agree with brother White 100%!

I will attempt to answer each of your questions in the order you presented them in:
"Is there any wrong in wanting to own your home some day, to look at what you have and want your kids to have more?"

In today's world, genuine Bible believing Christians have to make some hard choices that may entail sacrifice and some hardship and deprivation for themselves and their children. It is extremely difficult to do without “things” in a world that is steeped in materialism and covetousness; but we are admonished to learn "to be content" with what God has given us.

Philippians 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.    


1 Timothy 6:6  But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.


There is nothing wrong in a wife desiring what is best for her husband and herself. And it is natural for a mother to want what is best for the children that God has given to her and her husband to care and provide for. The important thing is to know and understand what the Bible has to say about what is best for a family, and to be able to discern between what the Scriptures teach on the subject and what friends, neighbors, society, our culture, or the world might think or believe concerning the subject.

The Holy Bible teaches that husbands and wives have different roles (or duties) to fulfill in a Scriptural marriage; and a mutual recognition on the part of both the husband and the wife of those roles (or duties) is essential if they are to have a harmonious, peaceful, and lasting marriage. [Ephesians 5:22-33; Colossians 3:18-19; 1 Peter 3:1-7; 1 Corinthians 7:3; 11:3; 1 Timothy 2:9-15; 5:14; Titus 2:3-5]
  
It is no sin to own things (a house, a car, personal possessions, etc.). However, whenever the pursuit of possessing material goods becomes the primary focus of our lives we end up coveting “things”, and covetousness is a sin [Luke 12:15; Romans 1:29; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5]. This is where examining our motives and keeping our heart with all diligence comes in.

Proverbs 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.      

When you talk about wanting “your kids to have more”, the question arises “more” of what - “More Things”? My wife and I raised up and trained seven children over a period of nearly 40 years (and home-schooled them for over 25 years), and I can testify that children need loving and caring parents far more than they need “things”. Our children never went without food or clothing and they had some “things”; but they didn’t have all of the “things” that they may have wanted, or even some the “things” that my wife and I may have wanted for them, but (for the most part) they never really missed the “things” they never had and they were no more the worse for not having them. “Things” may bring temporary pleasure but they do not bring genuine lasting happiness.

You asked:
"Would it be better to work 40 hours a week,  live in a space that is really small and falling apart but see your kids more then work two jobs but be able to provide with out welfare, be able to give everyone a room, food, clothing but not be around as much."

Today’s world is a difficult, troublesome, and often harsh place to live in. And I can testify that it is far more difficult for a young married couple today than it was back in the 1950’s when I was growing up or in the 1960’s when my wife and I were first married.

Between the Federal, State, County, and City governments’ tax burden and the cost of housing, food, transportation, medical, etc., it is extremely difficult for young couples with children to stay ahead of the bills, and getting ahead of them is practically impossible – I know because my wife and I have been there. There are no easy answers to your inquiries, but I can testify that it is far better for children to do without some “things” than it is for them to do without their mother or father!     

You asked:
"Should Christians having a savings for if some happens? Is there any reason for it or against it?"

Can a Christian have some savings or put away some money for a rainy day? Of Course they can. God expects us to be wise and prudent in these matters and to look to Him and depend on Him for the supply of these things. It all comes down to WHO or WHAT do we trust in. Are we trusting in money or are we trusting in God?

1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

1 Timothy 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Proverbs 29:25  The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.


You asked:
"I know I should trust in God to provide everything that we need, and that my husband should be providing through God, but at the end of the day shouldn't he desire to provide better if he could?"

It’s real easy for me to quote Scripture and say “Trust in God”, but to be honest; this is an area in my walk with God that I have struggled with all of my life. All I can do is encourage you to trust God and be thankful for what you have – a faithful husband, your good health, the good health of your children, a roof over your head, food on the table, and enough clothing to keep you warm on cold days, and a few “extra things”, etc.

Also, since you are your husband’s wife (i.e. his trusted “companion” – Malachi 2:14), I would recommend that you not demand of him more than he can physically provide. A wife is supposed to be “an help meet” [Genesis 2:18, 20] for her husband, not a critic or his boss. It does no good to burden a husband with a load that he cannot bear. I would recommend that you follow the example of the “holy women” of “old time” as illustrated in the following verses in the Holy Bible and continue to pray to God for your needs and be thankful for the blessings that you have.  

1 Peter 3:1  Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.


Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.


Proverbs 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
George Anderson    http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/

. . . . . yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written . . . . . Romans 3:4
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Re: Standard of Living.

Postby armadillo » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:31 pm

Mia wrote:Brother Armadillo-

Thank you for your response and in no way was I meaning to gather support against my husband( or be manipulative in any way) he works really hard for us and does a good job at providing to the best of his ability and I am blessed to have  a husband who is willing to work at all, and who tries as hard as I have seen him. He is a good man and when I posted this I was not Thinking clearly beyond stress and in some ways fear of the unknown . I have praying a lot for direction and guidance and will keep praying.

I agree with you completely and thank you your words were encouraging and exactly what I No and needed to hear.



Amen, sister, I am so glad to read this response.  I was praying that emotions were causing the original post to read differently than intended, I did read some things into your post that were not there and for that I apologize, and I was praying that my response would not have been misconstrued, taken in a way I had not intended, and sound too harsh.

Having spent a little time in Haiti and years in Mexico, I have a different perspective on this thing called standard of living.  Having read much about Christians suffering throughout the world, presently and in history, I have come to realize that we, American Christians, are in general, spoiled rotten, self-absorbed, whiny, demanding, pitiful, brats that have no clue what it means to suffer.  Please know that I am lumping myself into that category and that my post was directed at myself as a reminder as much as in response to your post.  The enemy knows exactly what to use to get us down and depressed.  And I can tell you honestly, that not too many months ago I had the mully grubs myself.  I'll not go into all the gloomy details, but just know that a good spiritual slap in the face was what I needed to get me straightened out again.

I'm sure you know, but just as a reminder, many things that society deems as necessities are not.  Cable/ Satellite TV, Broadband Internet, Cell phones & Smart phones, Processed Foods & Fast Foods, are several examples where many Americans spend a great deal of money.  These extravagant expenditures where not a part of the standard household budget 20 years ago, and yet society would have you believe these are necessities.  I know of people who cannot make their mortgage payment and their car is in jeopardy of being repossessed, but they make sure the Cable gets paid.  I'm not saying any of this applies specifically to your situation, I have no idea of your situation, I'm just addressing generalities.  Cut expenses anywhere you can, and as the Home-maker, you have a great influence on many expenditures.  Especially with the rapidly rising cost of groceries, you can save a lot by shopping the outside aisles as much as possible, fresh is best, as much as possible, eliminate frozen, canned, and boxed foods, and don't eat-out. Start a garden if possible (even in pots if nothing else).  Beans and rice are still fairly inexpensive and when you get tired of that you can switch it around and have rice and beans.

It is imperative that Christian couples be on the "same page" when it comes to the budget.  If you haven't already done so, go through a Bible-based financial course, there are several good ones.  You may have to make some radical life changes, and society (friends and family) will think you are nuts, but it is worth it. Do all you can to get completely out of debt and stay there.

Despite the news media propaganda, this nation (and all the others) is in a severe financial depression.  We need to take a leaf from the pages of those who lived through the great depression; those times are on us again, and yet I fear this generation has not the moral fortitude to survive as well as they did.  They didn't trust the banks, they grew their own food, they bartered for goods and services, they wasted nothing, and they trusted in God.  If the Lord doesn't come soon, we are in for some tough times ahead.

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Re: Standard of Living.

Postby Mia » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:52 pm

Brother Daniel,

I agree 100% that there is so much that people can cut out of there lives at least here in America, we have over the last almost five now always tried to stick to the bare minimum we have no cell phones, Internet we have as just recently added cable since it became cheaper to keep our land line and have all three ( which still baffles me started with Phone was cheaper with internet then cable ) and James has to have the phone for his job, so we just do that as cheaply as we can and I do enjoy the internet a lot as well as our computers.

This year we paid off the Last credit card with our tax return, we do not believe in financing a car so we buy used that way we are not owing money. We eat only Organic now before we were new the standards for 'natural' foods we would eat those too but just cut them out once we read more about and have actually used less money on food changing to organic an making raw food drinks which are filling.  So I certainly agree with you on areas that can be cut out. And finally not paying on that credit card is great it is going to allow to rent a two bedroom apartment rather then the one bedroom we are in now, and that will be really nice to have Privacy again and our own room since the kids are small enough to share one still.

We were blessed today that this Car sales man actually Picked us up so that he could show us a 20002 Ford Wind-star Van that was within our budget once we get the check from the insurance since we could not get a ride to go and look at  it he actually picked us up and dropped us and said he could pick us up  once we get the check to, he worked out a deal with his boss were we put what we had saved as a down payment an No interest at all they will hold the car till the 9th an we can pay them the remainder once we get the money from progressive which should be in two days. The insurance actually demmed the car to be worth $5,700 and we are buying the van for $5,610 and some change. so the rest should over the plates as well and is working out well we had looked at a Montana Pontiact Monday and it was everything we wanted in a van but $7.3k and at the time the cheapest one they had so that was not going to work at all and there was nothing there under 140k miles we could aford so it was just an answer to prayer that this one came in and it almost exactly the same James even said it drives better it is at 126k miles great shape, ac.heater everything works has a back window shield wiper even and a Dvd player Zahara is in love with seats seven just what we had wanted and more, still allowing us the money we saved to move as well. And once we get the that check the great thing is we will own the car get the tittle and not owe money on it which is good one less thing to stress over.

We found out today that a two bedroom is coming open in our apartment right as our lease will end, and the Landlord offered us $700 a month for it normally it goes for $750 a month we are paying $600 now there is no Ac like ours  but it has heat and FREE heat, it is A LOT bigger and he said we could put in a swamp cooler if we wanted to to keep it from being super hot in the summers, with the credit card gone as of February we can a ford it an be fine. And that is an answer to prayer as well so I am Thankful and have much to be thankful for there are times I guess when you just hit a spot were nothing seems to be working out and then all of a sudden it all comes together in a way that was so unexpected.


Thank you for sharing though !
Psalms 147:3  He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds.
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Re: Standard of Living.

Postby Mia » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:13 pm

Grandpa George

Thank you for your wisdom and sharing, I agree money should not be a primary focus in our lives at all, often times it seems to be a great stress, things have a way of happening every time you think your going to get ahead at least in the last fives years but in the end it always works out and it makes our marriage stronger to go through so many things together, June will make five years we have been married and the bond we have not from when we were first wed is so much more I can not even imagine what 50 years will be like.

In quoting you-
I would recommend that you
not
demand
of him more than he can physically provide.
In the beginning I think I expected and demanded far more then I should of or what was right, I am very thankful for the time spent with you and grandma and that I could see first hand a wonderful example of a biblical marriage, we do not do many things how you guys do but, in seeing Grandma I have learned a lot about reverence and how to be a better Mom and wife that I will forever be thankful for, an your passion for Christ has always been  encouraging.

You SAid :
Today’s world is a difficult, troublesome, and often harsh place to live in. And I can testify that it is far more difficult for a young married couple today than it was back in the 1950’s when I was growing up or in the 1960’s when my wife and I were first married. Between the Federal, State, County, and City governments’ tax burden and the cost of housing, food, transportation, medical, etc., it is extremely difficult for young couples with children to stay ahead of the bills, and getting ahead of them is practically impossible – I know because my wife and I have been there. There are no easy answers to your inquiries, but I can testify that it is far better for children to do without some “things” than it is for them to do without their mother or father!  

[START]Thank you for answering my questions and your opinion on if working 40 hours a week and being there is better then working more and not being there. It is something we have often talked about that has been of a great importance to us that James is able to  see the kids grow up and be there more for them. Some times it is stressful in that right now he is not making muck more then minimum wage but slowly every year he'll get a raise an that will be good in the long haul.  Meeting others with kids and they are not seeing theirs as much as he gets to see ours many people just do not no how we can live how we do because it is one income  And we some times hit some hard places like with the guy totaling our var, and James having to spend $20 a  week on bus fare to get to work, or not having insurance for us and only having it for the kids at the moment. Some how we are still able some times to do more even with our kids then people were both parents work or one has two jobs. We save us extra here and there just to go on a sort road trip, or the zoo and that is always a blessing , and we often do free things like the park and picnics as well which I when I think about the kids would rather do and see us then not as much. and being there we can better shape who they are. [/START]
[START]
[/START]
[START]Thank you though for your answer I agree completely  [/START]
Psalms 147:3  He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds.
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